Official Luthiers Forum!

The major drawback for me in using Nitro is the time involved. This is the most time consuming and painstaking part of finishing the guitar. Spray, sand, spray sand, spray sand...etc,etc.. then wait weeks before the buffing process begins and pray you don't burn through. IF SO, START SPRAYING AGAIN !! &*(^_%$%&($. No matter how much I like the finished results, It's still hard to justify the time involved. That's the main reason I'm looking for an alternative method. FP is new ground for me as I have always used Nitro but, if it works and is less time consuming the learning curve will be time well spent and justified.
Thanks for the links and info.

Oh forgot one thing..I would be interested to know what type finish John Grevinin is using. There is another thread on him. If he is completing 43 instruments per year...he must have a good finishing system that is less time consuming. I don't have access to the GAL magazine to read the article. Does it tell anything about what finish he uses ?????

Traditional French polish is not your ticket then. To French polish the the traditional method takes much longer than a sprayed nitro finish, with the exception of the cure time. Hand rubbed French polish is a major labor intinsive finish.MichaelP38568.5152083333

I have switched %100 over to epoxy and KTM-9, I like the way it goes on and polishes out and I like that fact that I can't blow up my shop with it.

If I had to use regular Nitro it would be Mcfaddens which I was using up to switching to KTM-9, the other thing about KTM vs McFaddens is that I can polish KTM much much sooner. Only a big deal when your in a big hurry

Cheers

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

I now French polish, but used to use Nitro but I got to be concerned with the fumes, and my health. When I was nitroing (is that a word?) I gatherered every type I could find and did some tests on offcuts, (actually a side I had broken) when I took the finished offcuts round to various builders and players with one exception everyone chose the Mohawk instument lacquer as the best.

To finish my lutes and upcoming early instruments I used a hand rubbed varnish that comes in an old glass coffee jar with a label on it that says "Varnish" which I get from David Hume. He won't say what's in it but its the stuff he uses on his $20000 violins.

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.

Maybe I need to contact David ??

Most likely something he bought at home depot

You know how violin makers are....

-Paul-

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-Paul-

Patriot Guitars

   I sprayed McFadden's nitrocellulose instrument lacquer on the first 350 to 375 guitars that I built and got great results with it. Prior to having Omega Guitars and building custom acoustic guitars, I had Kevin Gallagher Guitarworks in Patterson, NJ where we made electric bodies and necks for sale and for several large manufacturers who had contracted work out to keep up with their order demands. We sprayed nitro lacquer there as well and covered nearly ten thousand pieces successfully with it. It's a great finish as long as you're patient and give it the necessary time to cure before your final sanding and buffing. I always insisted that all final sanding be done by hand and to 2000 grit before buffing to ensure no burn through as much as possible. If you're using a high quality gun like an Accuspray or SATA model and it is set up properly, the finish will run out to a glass like surface prior to that final sand stage so it's not as much work as it would appear to be. Finish work is not easy no matter what material you're using and not everyone can pull off a great high gloss finish.

    Nitro lacquer will ALWAYS continue to shrink as it cures for the first year or so of the guitar's life, though. It's just a fact and is the nature of the product. I had long conversations with a dozen or so of the builders who are regarded as some of the best in the world who have switched to other finishes to get away from the appearance that they experienced as they would see instruments that were built by them years earlier. They all shared the same emotion concerning the continued shrinkage after shipment even if they had allowed additional time beyond the extended cure times in the shop before buffing....the shrinkage gave an appearance that wasn't desirable.

   As a result of those conversations, I finally chose to switch to the UV cured polyester that has been growing in popularity in recent years because of its workability, durability and its ability to look the same ten years after the guitar is built as it does on the day the guitar was hipped from the builder's shop. It's an expensive change, but one well worth every dollar. The application process is one that takes time and patience to master, but when the finishes start to come out of the spray booth and to the buffing wheel in a matterot two days intead of 30 to 45, the benefits are obvious.

   This finish is very durable and scratch resistent at several times the durability of lacquer and is able to applied very thinly to allow free vibration of all woods in the guitars that it's on.

    I use an outside air supply mask and UV shield to protect myself and have gotten use to the extra measures needed to use it so it's no problem at all. When you think about, spraying nitro lacquer is a dangerous proposition in itself and any operator should be fully covered with Tyvek overalls and gloves when they spray it in order to avoid any contact and exposure to it through the lungs or skin to be truly safe. Very few builders exercize the full measures necessary to keep it off of them. It's dangerous stuff and can kill you if you're not careful and that is precisely why some states have banned its use or the posession of it as a hazardous material and threat to the environment. I was visiting a luthier's shop years ago in NYC and he was spraying his guitars in the open shop by a window with a powerful fan pulling the overspray out and sending it across a walk space to the neighbor's kitchen window. He's since passed away, but was one of the finest archtop builders in the world. Bob Taylor and Tom Anderson have pioneered the UV technology and use largely to the point where it is now due to California's VOC laws restricting the use of nitro lacquer.

   A nice finish is not worth cancer or a problem with you heart or lungs so use all necessary safety gear to keep yourself around for your family and friends as long as possible. Don't breathe the stuff or get it on your hands or any skin.

Regards,
Kevin Gallagher/Omega Guitars

[QUOTE=Sprockett] Most likely something he bought at home depot

You know how violin makers are....

-Paul-[/QUOTE]

Paul, most likely he does (although we don't have Home Depot over here, probably B&Q).

David along with Charles Beare (THE Strad expert) have borrowed my lab equipment, Scanning Electron Mic, Gas Chromatograph and Mass Spectrometer etc, and my post grad students to try and analyse the Cremonese varnishes. Guess what, they just used the bog standard varnish of the time! So I guess a 'magic' varnish won't make our guitars sing. We're going to have to build them good before we put the finish on. That's gonna make life very hard for me!

Colin

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I don't believe in anything, I simply make use of a set of reasonable working hypotheses.